Raj Sharma Interview on CBC BC Today with Michelle Elliot -September 21, 2023

The following is a transcript of an interview on September 21, 2023. 

Michelle Elliot:	[inaudible 00:00:00] visa services in Canada, is Raj Sharma. He's an immigration lawyer and former immigration officer, and Raj joins me now from Calgary. Hello, good afternoon.
Raj Sharma:	Good afternoon.
Michelle Elliot:	Thank you very much for joining us this afternoon. What do you make of this latest move from India?
Raj Sharma:	Well, whenever we deal with international disputes it's the ordinary people that find themselves caught in the crossfire. My thoughts right now are for my clients. My thoughts right now are for individuals like my parents that immigrated to Canada from India many, many years ago so that diaspora is stranded in Canada without that overseas citizenship of India. There is no more E visa, there is no more visa consular services for Canadians, ostensibly because of security concerns but they won't even issue a visa to a Canadian even if that application's made outside of Canada to a different consulate. So we've got people stranded in Canada, they can't rush back if there's any sort of family emergency. We've got a massive disruption that's going to happen In terms of tourism on both sides. We're going to have a freezing of relations and that will extend to the business world and obviously joint ventures.
	We're going to see disruption in terms of CBSA, Canada Border Services Agency, seeking to remove individuals to Canada because, ostensibly, the Indians will probably be reluctant to issue travel documents, at least in the near future. We're probably going to see an increase in refugee claims and applications to remain in Canada by Indian nationals in Canada that perhaps don't want to go back to India.
Michelle Elliot:	You've outlined a lot there of possible ramifications. What is your office like today? What are the calls you're getting?
Raj Sharma:	It's busy in the sense that my office handles a lot of litigation so we handle a lot of deportation and removals. And so, we've been dealing with CBSA on a number of files. And so, one, shall we say silver lining, I don't want to minimize the adverse consequences for other individuals but one silver lining for this office is that removals will be interrupted and that will give us an opportunity to file different applications to keep our clients here, so there's the silver lining. There's always the strange or unexpected impact. COVID itself had a strange impact on immigration processing that impacted every immigration business line, but individuals will quickly realize this type of rupture in relations between Canada and India will have seen and unforeseen consequences.
	India is the number one source country of permanent residents to Canada. India is number one, by far, source country of international students. 40% of international students are Indian nationals. Out of those 40%, a significant percentage are from Punjab which is, of course, the pivot point, shall we say, of the current dispute between the government of Canada and the government of India.
Michelle Elliot:	Perhaps you can explain that for us because the impact will be on people wanting to travel, immediately anyway, wanting to travel to India. How does this affect the students who applied to come to Canada, immigration, and what is the impact coming in? We heard from Randeep Sarai that for now, at least, Canada is not doing the same thing when it comes to visas from India.
Raj Sharma:	Well, Canada is doing the same thing but in a different way.
Michelle Elliot:	What do you mean?
Raj Sharma:	As immigration lawyers, our clients always ask us what is going to happen. Sometimes we're good, sometimes we can foresee things, sometimes we can't foresee things. One thing that I did foresee a day or so ago was that there would be a drawdown in staff in the Canadian High Commission in India so it's not a tit-for-tat in the sense that they've imposed or they've suspended. The Indians have suspended visa consular services for Canadians inside Canada. Now, conversely, and they've said it's security as a reason for that. The Canadians have also indicated security as a reason to draw down the number of staff and diplomatic staff and presumably visa processing staff out of India. India is the largest visa processing center outside of Canada so drawing down staff there is going to cause backlogs and delays. Individuals in India that are hoping to visit, study or join their family in Canada or work may well be impacted by that drawdown.
Michelle Elliot:	Okay. Because of the impact on the processes themselves, there will be that effect on people who are hoping to come here. That's really interesting.
Raj Sharma:	Right, nothing formal, nothing formal announcement, it's just, "Okay, we're going to decrease our resources allotted to the largest visa processing center, outside Canada."
Michelle Elliot:	Okay. Let's put out the phone numbers once again. My guest is Raj Sharma, an immigration lawyer, a former immigration officer. He went through some of the scenarios there. We're asking you what impact will the suspension of Visa applications have on you or your family, and what about if you're a student or you are a business person hoping to visit as well, what impact will this have on you? What are the questions that you have right now? Give us a call, 1-800-825-5950, 604-669-3733, #690 on your cell phone. And the statement that was given from India this morning was: Important notice from Indian Mission. Due to operational reasons, with effect from September 21st, Indian visa services have been suspended until further notice. This was a statement from the BLS Indian Visa Application Center in Canada.
	It gave no further details in the statement but BLS is the agency that processes visa requests for India, including for entry, tourist, students, and employment visas. Let's go to a caller now. Christopher is joining us from Kelowna. Hi Christopher, what are your thoughts on the visa suspensions, the application suspensions?
Christopher:	Hi. Yeah, so my thoughts are I think Canada is doing a very good job of being measured, in this moment. To a previous one of your guests, that we've had a Canadian citizen assassinated on Canadian soil and they're going through the process right now. I think they're looking at all the avenues and all the information. At the end of the day, too, the Modi government has had a history of violence against its own citizens, specifically Sikhs. We live in a very diverse population in Kelowna, a lot of Indo-Canadians here, Sikhs and Hindus, and I think we're doing a good job on the international stage and pushing this forward and making sure that a friend and an ally, a supported ally, doesn't become a adversary, and I think we're doing the right thing. I think India is trying to save space, at this point, along with the Modi government.
	You could see that a couple weeks ago. I guess we didn't know the full gamut of what was happening and that's, hence, why there was some consternation a couple of weeks ago while they were in India. But my question would be is, how does this cool relations in terms of people wanting to come to Canada to get away from violence, and then a foreign adversary, a foreign government, still committing violence on Canada? So to Raj, the question would be is, how do you get away from that and how does he as an immigration lawyer now defend against that with clients because, obviously, it's happened here now and might happen again, essentially.
Michelle Elliot:	Okay, Christopher, thank you very much for the question. You touched on this a little bit, Raj, in terms of refugee applications, but what impact will it have and how do you explain that then?
Raj Sharma:	Well, I guess Christopher's question is sort of broad but let's back up a little bit. Of course, we have to bear in mind that, as they say, the proof is in the pudding. So I suppose everyone right now, after that bombshell announced by Prime Minister Trudeau, everyone right now is waiting for further evidence regarding the implication of Indian agents or the Indian state in the assassination or murder of Hardeep Singh Nijjar back in June of this year. That approach of Mr. Trudeau is at odds with the approach of other heads of states, such as Erdogan and [inaudible 00:09:24] after the assassination of the gruesome killing of Jamal Khashoggi, where the Turkish state put out, within a month or so, detailed evidence linking the KSA Saudi Arabian nationals to the crime in question. …The other part, in terms of specifically immigration option, you will very well have individuals in Canada that will be concerned in returning to India.
	You have individuals that have taken part in this referendum, this Khalistan referendum that India of course does not recognize. The Khalistan referendum is being put on by an organization called Sikh for Justice, which is headed by this firebrand, Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, apparently based out of New York. That organization was banned by the Modi government in 2019. So all these individuals that have taken part in the Khalistan referendum, and there's been hundreds of thousands of individuals in Canada that have voted, may well be concerned about going back to India since the card that allows them to vote is a card issued by a band organization, and so you have immediately a concern and probably a well-founded concern.
	We do know that the Indians, and the Chinese, and other governments, the Iranians, the Venezuelans, the Ethiopians, the Eritreans, monitor their foreign diasporas in countries, including Canada and the United States and other countries. That alone could lead to a rise in claims, refugee claims, claims for protection, claims to remain in Canada on humanitarian and compassion grounds, and this is not the first time, this is not the first time this has happened. The Immigration Refugee Board of Canada, where I used to work many, many years ago, was created in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in 1987 called Singh. That was, after 1984 the attack on the Golden Temple, the assassination of Indira Gandhi by her bodyguards, the wanton destruction of property, rape, loot, and killings of innocent Sikhs in Delhi and other places, thousands of them, led to that first wave of refugees and the creation of the refugee protection system in Canada so this bears some hallmarks or some echoes of what happened in the 1980s.
Michelle Elliot:	Appreciate that, thank you very much, and Raj will join us for a few more minutes after the news update here. My guest is Raj Sharma, immigration lawyer and former immigration officer with the Immigration Refugee Board, as he just said. We are asking you, how will the suspension of visa application services by India in Canada affect you or your family? Did you have plans to travel, to visit with family or travel for business? What are the questions you have right now? You can give us a call. 1-800-825-5950, 604-669-3733 or #690, and we'll go back to Raj Sharma in just a moment. We'll hear from a travel agent as well on what they're hearing today and we will have a feature interview before the end of the hour with racer, track and field star, Valerie Jerome, on her new book. That's coming up after the CBC News update with Robert Zimmerman.
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	I'll have more local news at the top of the hour. Now back to Michelle, with BC Today.
Michelle Elliot:	Thanks very much, Rob. That's Rob Zimmerman in the CBC Vancouver newsroom. We are continuing our coverage of the ongoing diplomatic spat now between India and Canada and asking you, in light of today's announcements, that India is suspending processing visa applications in Canada. There is an office in Vancouver. How will this affect you or your family now? What impact will it have on work, and students, and business visits? Our phone number 1-800-825-5950, 604-669-3733, and #690 on your cell phone. We have a clip now for you. Jatinder Dadrao is the owner of Let's Go Travel and Tours in Surrey and he has this advice for people with upcoming travel to India.
Jatinder Dadrao:	And Indian government also mentioned, if you have approved visa there is no suspension, everything is good to go. Except you are not eligible to apply for the new visa. Then it's an issue. Everybody has to go over to their travel agent or the website to apply for the refund, there is no any other choice. Because they don't have any option without Visa, they are not allowed to enter in India. Even like they deny at the airport for the boarding because you don't have a visa.
Michelle Elliot:	Okay. What do you make then, Raj, of the advice that he's giving there?
Raj Sharma:	Well, that's right. A visa is the document that allows you to knock on the door of whatever country issues it so if you have a visa, obviously you have the authorization to approach that country. The issue is, is that you have 700,000 plus Sikhs in Canada. Some are Canadian, some are not yet Canadian, and out of Indo-Canadians inside of Canada and their descendants, like myself, I've only had a Canadian passport. And then, you've got individuals that want to go back to India for whatever their eat, pray, love moment or go to some yoga retreat. You're talking about something that will impact possibly 100,000 or more individuals that had plans or immediate plans to go. I mean, my grandmother passed away in December. My uncles who are, of course, Canadian citizens, went for her funeral rites to India. All of that will be impacted. So this rupture, disruption, spat, whatever you want to call it, the silent casualties are going to be individuals that have nothing to do with what's transpired.
Michelle Elliot:	Sarah is joining us from Vancouver. And Sarah, you have a question? You have plans to travel or you know people who are traveling or from India?
Sarah:	Hi, can you hear me?
Michelle Elliot:	Yes, we sure can. Go ahead.
Sarah:	Thank you. I have a question about the effect of this new diplomatic situation on students entering Canada. I am a college instructor and I am a little concerned about how students are going to feel in terms of their safety and how this is going to impact their entry to Canada.
Michelle Elliot:	Okay. Thank you very much for the question, Sarah. What are your thoughts on that, Raj?
Raj Sharma:	Well, India did issue a travel advisory to its nationals in Canada, including students regarding their safety or concerns for their safety or for them to take certain steps. I think that that is laughable and sort of farcical if it wasn't tragic. Obviously, I don't believe that there's any safety issues. I don't think any Indian students, and we have many, many clients that are international students and many of them are Indian, none of them indicate a fear for their safety in Canada. I don't think that that's the issue. The issue, I think, is going to be individuals that have applied and are coming to Canada for January admission. They've applied for their study permit and their student visa and they're like, "Okay, I've applied four months in advance, I should be good to go." That may not work out for them if Canadian visa processing is impacted by this rupture.
Michelle Elliot:	Okay, thank you very much for that question, Sarah. Barbara is up next now joining us from Vancouver. What's your question, Barbara?
Barbara:	I'm a Canadian citizen, born in Canada. I'm planning a trip to India, to the northeast states, for birdwatching. It's already all pretty much booked. I have applied online for an E visa. It has been accepted, I've received it in my email, and I have to present a printed copy when I arrive in India. I'm wondering if I'm still good to go or can they revoke that now or what is my situation, please?
Michelle Elliot:	Yeah, you're in between there, aren't you? Okay, thank you, Barbara. I asked Mr. Sarai about this but he said these are questions for India, but what do you think, Raj?
Raj Sharma:	...That E visa, however, with the Canadian passport, will allow you boarding on the carrier, the international carrier. You should probably check with the carrier first. I have an E Visa, it's issued, am I good to go to board? The carrier will let you know. Once you arrive in India, you do have a visa and so that should follow that process where you get that 30 day visa on arrival. There has been nothing indicating that those visas will not be honored. The only thing that they've indicated, the only thing that's suspended as of today is visa processing within Canada so that's what I would say. I think you're birdwatching trip is good to go but, yeah, I would be, of course, nervous. But first call I would make is call the carrier, call the airline, but I'm fairly certain the E visa will get you there and I'm fairly certain that the Indians will honor that E visa upon arrival. Think of it as you've got basically a OCI, you've got a valid visa, so there's nothing in their announcement that indicates that they won't honor an already issued visa.
Michelle Elliot:	Okay, thank you very much for that question. And just to wrap up with you, Raj, India, when it comes to the allegations about the killing, when it comes to the killing of Mr. Nijjar, they say they're absurd, they reject them and they say they're politically motivated. Your thoughts about ... You've been kind of sending this message, hammering the message that the individuals are caught in the crossfire here so what does this mean for people you work with then as the diplomatic tensions continue?
Raj Sharma:	Well, first I'll say is that I don't think anyone expected the Indians to say anything other than what they've said, I think it would be quite remarkable if they said something different. The issue now is going to be is, how long is this chill in relations going to be? … Again, the ripples in the pond are it's very difficult to see all of the implications here. There's going to be first order, second order, third order, tertiary level consequences to this so the only thing I can say is that I hope that this chill in relations, that both sides step back and accommodate the needs of Canadians needing to go to India, and for Indian, obviously, visitors, students, workers, and family members coming to Canada … this is an ally nation and it's a democracy as well, and so one can only hope that there is a successful resolution to this. I won't call it a spat, I'll call it a crisis, this is quite unprecedented, so one can only hope and pray that spring is around the corner in terms of these two countries.
Michelle Elliot:	It's really good to speak with you this afternoon, thank you so much.
Raj Sharma:	My pleasure.
Michelle Elliot:	Raj Sharma is an immigration lawyer, a former immigration officer.